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Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2013.03.25 07:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok Guys... First, I would like to say, "Awesome thread." There are so many great ideas and opinions in this thread. Clearly, everyone who has played dust for 6 months or 6 days knows that there is a huge issue with players and the: on ground, random, ridiculous, unrealistic, and non-sensical spawns.... Everyone has been shot dead before they could make a move. <--- this is silly.
At no point in any battle in history or the future (ever), whether in 13 AD, 2013, or the year 20,013 would any soldier end up in a battle with his eyes closed in the middle of enemy fire. You either ran in, rode in, drove in, or parachuted in.. etc etc...
There is a super simple cure to the current AMBUSH system in place.
Make up a good background story with mechanics that make sense.
You and your fellow mercs spawn in a CRU on a mother ship hovering in the outer atmosphere of the current planet you are fight on. (None of which needs to actually happen, its a back ground story for where you are coming from) You are dropped out of the ship in a Pod (that can survive the extreme atmosphere of the current planet you are free falling into.) The pod that you are in is made of some super futuristic plasma that is not only bullet/heat/pressure tested and certified (impenetrable) it is fully equipped with a claoking device, and also somewhat see-thru. (Picture a glimmering water droplet that you can see out of, but it is somewhat blurry.) (Maybe you have 5 seconds of free fall where the map gets bigger and bigger ((closer)) so you have an IDEA of where you are about to land but no advantage over un-suspecting enemies you are about to rain down on.) For this 5 seconds of free fall, you are fully capable of looking up, down, left right, etc... you can turn, twist, crouch, WHATEVER. You choose which direction you are facing when you hit the ground.
So... you can see that you are coming close to hitting the ground, at this point you engage your inertia.
BOOM!!!! You hit the ground in a cloud of dust, much like you would from an MCC...
You are only visible once you hit the ground and have full range of motion. This is explained by your claoking device fizzling out once you are on the surface. At this point you are fully aware of your location on the map, and facing in the direction you choose.
You have no control of where you landed (exactly like it is now) you get to fall out of the sky (like everyone wants) There is a background story on why this is possible (lore geeks) and you dont spawn out of nowhere with your pants down in front of enemies that are just standing there watching your shimmering body form out of thin air.
Maybe your body does shimmer into visibility like it does now, but you have a 5 second advantage of visibility and motion more than you did originally, and you know where you are. (Not being shot before your eyes open)
The mechanics would be made so that once you hit the ground, you can move, see, shoot, turn, duck, WHATEVER. No more spawning out of thin air in front of someone that is shooting you before you can defend yourself.... (That is the real reason people are discussing the current spawn system now isn't it!?)
What do you think? Genius? I think yes. |
Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2013.03.25 20:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ronan Elsword wrote:When I first saw the trailer with the Amarr heavies dropping into battle, I thought all spawns would start this way. I agree that only random spawns and objective spawning should have this like you said. Also add an option that automatically activates inertia dampener when you spawn only, not when jumping off stuff like the MCC or buildings. This OPTION would stop people from accidental deaths resulting from lag or spawning glitches.
I Agree. Thats a great idea. |
Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2013.03.25 21:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ronan Elsword wrote:Suits have built in systems for falling, and breathing already, getting shot or seen on your way down is just the risk you have to take. It's much harder to see someone who hasn't activated inertia dampener so just wait to last second in that case. (Doesn't really matter in Skirmish since most people can't see you, or they know where your coming from; but still kinda fun to see how low you can get before activation. Also they could make you activate dampener earlier depending on how far you have fallen, otherwise risking taking damage.
Are you saying that you agree? That the spawns in the AMBUSH mode should be from above, and not randomly spawning "on the ground for no apparent reason?"
There is no background story on why and how a merc spawns into a random location on the battlefield. Spawning from above and inertia dropping in to a battle is completey explainable by a orbit deployment from a ship...
Do you agree? |
Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2013.03.25 21:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
As stated in the origninal post on this thread "WE WANT TO RAIN DOWN FROM THE SKY LIKE TINY METAL BUNDLES OF DEATH!!!"
I think this is clear, everyone would love to spawn from the sky, I think it is our duty as mercs on the forums to give CCP a clear reason for this, and also provide the background to make it make sense., and make it easy for them to implement.
With "having a ship come down and drop off "groups of mercs" I think that this would be more un-necessary work for the game Devs. Wouldn't it be more efficient to simply have mercs spawn high up in the sky (out of view from people on the ground, and then have a non-functional piece of art, of a large ship in the outer atmosphere that people on ground cant see, but mercs falling from the sky can look up and see but it disappears once they are getting closer to the ground/further from the ship they just spawned from?
There would be no need for any real game mechanics involving the ship, or the spawn. Just simply have the clone sync with the Merc in mid plummet. It would just be part of the background story to show a large ship slipping from the mercs view as he falls, and make sense why mercs are falling from the sky???
Any ideas? Let me know if this doesn't make sense...
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Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2013.03.26 02:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Black Jackal wrote:While generally I'm for the option of Sky Spawning... I have to ask how. Everything in this game is based on lore of some kind and assets. The only ship we have over any particular battlefield is the War Barge. But we wont always have said warbarge. At the moment, you can spawn in, and drop from the MCC, that is essentially 'Sky Spawning' with a manual twist, as you have to jump.
The spawn in the base, that is simply unrealistic, and should have a CRU, or other mechanic behind it to retain it.
If you want Sky Spawning, have a dedicated Dropship pilot flying over the battlefield with a Mobile CRU. Its the way it should happen, you do it yourself, rather than some random non-existent AI element that miraculously 'drops' you where you want to be on the battlefield.
What is wrong with keeping a war barge? Come up with some lore why its there?? Dropping from an MCC, I don't think this is what anyone is talking about in this discussionGǪ Because... Spawning in an MCC has nothing to do with an AMBUSH match. This discussion is not only in response to people wanting to fall from the sky, but also to get rid of the non-sense, random, on ground spawning in an AMBUSH match right??
If you are worried about lore and reasoning behind things happening (such as falling from the sky when you spawn) what is the lore or reasoning behind spawning out of thin air on a battle field no where near a worm hole or CRU??
Pick and choose which things are supported by lore and reasoning? I say pick falling from the sky out of no where, instead of spawning on the ground in front of bullets, out of no where....
#just sayin |
Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Black Jackal wrote:Dearh By HIV wrote:The Black Jackal wrote:While generally I'm for the option of Sky Spawning... I have to ask how. Everything in this game is based on lore of some kind and assets. The only ship we have over any particular battlefield is the War Barge. But we wont always have said warbarge. At the moment, you can spawn in, and drop from the MCC, that is essentially 'Sky Spawning' with a manual twist, as you have to jump.
The spawn in the base, that is simply unrealistic, and should have a CRU, or other mechanic behind it to retain it.
If you want Sky Spawning, have a dedicated Dropship pilot flying over the battlefield with a Mobile CRU. Its the way it should happen, you do it yourself, rather than some random non-existent AI element that miraculously 'drops' you where you want to be on the battlefield.
What is wrong with keeping a war barge? Come up with some lore why its there?? Dropping from an MCC, I don't think this is what anyone is talking about in this discussionGǪ Because... Spawning in an MCC has nothing to do with an AMBUSH match. This discussion is not only in response to people wanting to fall from the sky, but also to get rid of the non-sense, random, on ground spawning in an AMBUSH match right?? If you are worried about lore and reasoning behind things happening (such as falling from the sky when you spawn) what is the lore or reasoning behind spawning out of thin air on a battle field no where near a worm hole or CRU?? Pick and choose which things are supported by lore and reasoning? I say pick falling from the sky out of no where, instead of spawning on the ground in front of bullets, out of no where.... #just sayin I wont disagree with you there on most points.. but these matches, especially instant matches, would require how many Warbarges.. especially if they are player-owned, jumping your Warbarge all over the Universe to fight in Instant Battles would be simply unrealistic, and in these 16 V. 16 Matches, you could potentially have 32 Warbarges over this tiny tiny tiny map... If you jumped from yours, you'd be just as likely to splat onto someone else's Warbarge as hit the ground.
I don't think you read between the lines on what I was trying to get at in my post. This is probably my fault. Let me simplify this for you.
If the developers aren't worried about coming up with lore, or a reason for why mercs are spawning out of no where in the middle of a battle out of nothing.... Why should it matter if there is a war barge, not owned by anyone, not costing anyone any money, that ISNT REALLY THERE, its no ones asset. ONE war barge, just like the MCC, that we all fall from....
There is really no reason why this can't happen... You are never really in the barge, it is only there for the visuals... A merc syncs with his clone while already falling from the sky, while already in the planets atmosphere. |
Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Black Jackal wrote:Dearh By HIV wrote:The Black Jackal wrote:Dearh By HIV wrote:The Black Jackal wrote:While generally I'm for the option of Sky Spawning... I have to ask how. Everything in this game is based on lore of some kind and assets. The only ship we have over any particular battlefield is the War Barge. But we wont always have said warbarge. At the moment, you can spawn in, and drop from the MCC, that is essentially 'Sky Spawning' with a manual twist, as you have to jump.
The spawn in the base, that is simply unrealistic, and should have a CRU, or other mechanic behind it to retain it.
If you want Sky Spawning, have a dedicated Dropship pilot flying over the battlefield with a Mobile CRU. Its the way it should happen, you do it yourself, rather than some random non-existent AI element that miraculously 'drops' you where you want to be on the battlefield.
What is wrong with keeping a war barge? Come up with some lore why its there?? Dropping from an MCC, I don't think this is what anyone is talking about in this discussionGǪ Because... Spawning in an MCC has nothing to do with an AMBUSH match. This discussion is not only in response to people wanting to fall from the sky, but also to get rid of the non-sense, random, on ground spawning in an AMBUSH match right?? If you are worried about lore and reasoning behind things happening (such as falling from the sky when you spawn) what is the lore or reasoning behind spawning out of thin air on a battle field no where near a worm hole or CRU?? Pick and choose which things are supported by lore and reasoning? I say pick falling from the sky out of no where, instead of spawning on the ground in front of bullets, out of no where.... #just sayin I wont disagree with you there on most points.. but these matches, especially instant matches, would require how many Warbarges.. especially if they are player-owned, jumping your Warbarge all over the Universe to fight in Instant Battles would be simply unrealistic, and in these 16 V. 16 Matches, you could potentially have 32 Warbarges over this tiny tiny tiny map... If you jumped from yours, you'd be just as likely to splat onto someone else's Warbarge as hit the ground. I don't think you read between the lines on what I was trying to get at in my post. This is probably my fault. Let me simplify this for you. If the developers aren't worried about coming up with lore, or a reason for why mercs are spawning out of no where in the middle of a battle out of nothing.... Why should it matter if there is a war barge, not owned by anyone, not costing anyone any money, that ISNT REALLY THERE, its no ones asset. ONE war barge, just like the MCC, that we all fall from.... There is really no reason why this can't happen... You are never really in the barge, it is only there for the visuals... A merc syncs with his clone while already falling from the sky, while already in the planets atmosphere. It's already been stated by CCP that the Barge will be more than 'just visuals' in the future. They will be player owned, and to some extent, operated. They are an Asset, as will the MCC... Currently, yes, the spawn mechanic is off... but you could just as easily say that 'Ambush' area maps are inherently unstable Space-time locations and are spawning random micro-wormholes that us mercs have learned how to tap into. Or for an ambush map, they place a micro-wormhole generator in orbit, focused on a specific site. The mechanic of Sky Spawning, while an awesome idea, isn't covered by lore in any way shape or form using the 'Instant Battle mechanics'. As I stated above, do it manually, by getting your squad to spawn in, and drop from, a Dropship fitted with a Mobile CRU.
Okay, well that definitely covers the lore on why mercs spawn out of thin air, on the ground, in random locations. That makes perfect sense. Maybe if CCP wants to get people to stop debating why they spawn randomly in enemy fire they should use that explaination. I will give you that. Perfect idea and response to that issue.
Now... What about the fact that no one likes that?? No one wants that. It sucks. What about the ****** situation where your clone can take fire before you can move? Don't you think there should be SOMETHING done about this?
I like killing someone that has no chance at firing on me and defending himself as much as the next guy, but don't you think that there can be something done about this?
I understand that there are dropships with CRUs. I understand that there are drop upinks (I drop them more than anyone I know.)
But the question still remains... Is there any way to implement a sky spawn that makes sense in an 'Ambush" style battle?
Clearly you think that my ideas do not work. Do you have any, or do you think that it isn't something that could ever be done, because of the lore/story limitations and asset/ownership limitations?? |
Dearh By HIV
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dearh By HIV wrote:Ronan Elsword wrote:In this case just having the cloaking devise module on you when you're falling activates it automatically, turning it off when you turn on inertia dampener. Assuming you read the equipment dev blog today they confirmed cloaking devises in the next build. I guess my main point isn't getting across... The Real Issues: 1.) Mercs do not want to spawn randomly on the ground for no reason. (maybe CCP can release a background story to make this at least make sense) 2.) Mercs do not like the fact that an ememy can engage them, before they can defend themselves. 3.) Mercs want to fall from the sky and use their inertia like they show in this trailer (at 1:30) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI53ydJaus8With these three key things combined, We need to find a spawn system that makes these possible all at once. By making the merc able to position his body or choose which direction he will be facing when he is coming down from the sky, you get a split second of advantage over the enemy on the ground. With some sort of claoking device while you are coming down, the merc gets an even better advantage. Finding what works best and makes the most sense is what is most important.
What can be done, to make this spawning technique a possibility?? Is there just no way that this technique could ever make sense in an 'Ambush' battle? |
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